Importance of Python

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ajbrehm
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Importance of Python

Post by ajbrehm » Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:58 pm

I think this forum chapter should get started.

While I am not very familiar with Python myself (I am from the PowerShell/C# camp) I am convinced that Python support will be crucial for OpenVMS adoption on x64-64.

Especially since MSFT gave up Nano Server as a stand-alone version of Windows, OpenVMS might well be adopted as an engine for Python programs more secure and more Windows-like (ACLs and privileges) than Linux. I talked to developers at work and Python is growing bigger and we have lots of VMs running Python programs, some Linux, some Windows, all much too big for the little Python program they are hosting.

Assuming OpenVMS licensing is not too complicated (i.e. like in the past!) and licenses for simple systems are not too expensive, I can see one future for OpenVMS as a Python OS in Windows environments.
Last edited by ajbrehm on Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.


andrew_shaw
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Re: Importance of Python

Post by andrew_shaw » Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:27 am

I think this is a very valid point.

I've lived in the VMS world for many many years, but I am brand new to the Python world and I am very quickly seeing that it has a place. I have a pet project at the moment where I am writing some Python routines as wrappers for some really handy VMS stuff like TRNLNM so they can be called cleanly from other Python programs and have the VMS OS specific stuff hidden away so that you don't need an engineering degree in VMS in order to make use of its power. In the current dev world I live in where all the devs have simply "learned to exist" with VMS rather than actively embracing it, it will be very handy for them - plus is fun work for me :-)

So I really can see a future for Python in the VMS world.

Bring on Python 3 ;-)
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martinv
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Re: Importance of Python

Post by martinv » Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:30 am

andrew_shaw wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:27 am
I have a pet project at the moment where I am writing some Python routines as wrappers for some really handy VMS stuff like TRNLNM so they can be called cleanly from other Python programs
You mean like vms.rtl.lib.get_logical? ;)
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Re: Importance of Python

Post by andrew_shaw » Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:01 am

martinv wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:30 am
You mean like vms.rtl.lib.get_logical? ;)
Yes, like that, which I knew about, but that only did half the job.
I also needed to get to the TRANS=TERMINAL attribute though, which is why I had to go to SYS$TRNLNM()
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Re: Importance of Python

Post by brett.cameron » Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:08 am

andrew_shaw wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:01 am
martinv wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:30 am
You mean like vms.rtl.lib.get_logical? ;)
Yes, like that, which I knew about, but that only did half the job.
I also needed to get to the TRANS=TERMINAL attribute though, which is why I had to go to SYS$TRNLNM()
We do actually have that in the 3.5 kit but it's not documented :( We'll see about addressing this and maybe look to provide a set of hopefully useful examples.. We'll also see about adding knowledge of these functions into the IDE.


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Re: Importance of Python

Post by andrew_shaw » Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:14 am

brett.cameron wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:08 am
andrew_shaw wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:01 am
martinv wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:30 am
You mean like vms.rtl.lib.get_logical? ;)
Yes, like that, which I knew about, but that only did half the job.
I also needed to get to the TRANS=TERMINAL attribute though, which is why I had to go to SYS$TRNLNM()
We do actually have that in the 3.5 kit but it's not documented :( We'll see about addressing this and maybe look to provide a set of hopefully useful examples.. We'll also see about adding knowledge of these functions into the IDE.
Great, that would be really cool and no doubt easier than what I have at the moment, but what I have now works (its not very pretty, but that's why I'm trying to hide it). If you have a nicer version coming then so much the better :-)
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Re: Importance of Python

Post by willemgrooters » Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:55 am

Actually, there is a port of Python on OpenVMS, a (very) old one but it seems to be rather complete. Info on http://www.vmspython.org/doku.php.

Easy install since all you need are two logical disks, located on http://downloads.vmspython.org/anonymou ... images_ld/: jfplib0008A.zip and jfppy0700a_278.zip. Extract the disk containers (*.dsk), use LD to connect and mount them and add startup to SYSTARTUP.COM and your login script - consult documentation.

For what I know, there have been made a start to port Python 3.x to VMS but is has been blocked - what I'm told is that the fact that VMS doesn't implement fork as in Unix, and there are well accepted methods to bypass that, the team on python is not willing to adhere to these methods - that is my understanding. Furthermore, in the early days of development of this new version, all VMS-related code has been removed - because there was no maintainer (according to the team).
This was a few months ago - thing may have changed .

But VSI is well aware of the importance of supporting Python 3 - but they have other priorities at the moment :)


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Re: Importance of Python

Post by arne_v » Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:28 pm

I believe VSI's Python 3.x kit went into field test in February.

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