Updates to the Community Program

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imiller
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Updates to the Community Program

Post by imiller » Tue Mar 26, 2024 10:02 am

https://vmssoftware.com/about/news/2024 ... se-update/
Big news about the hobbyist license program :o
Ian Miller
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Re: Updates to the Community Program

Post by snadow » Thu Mar 28, 2024 10:57 am

This is a real shot across the bow and negates a few decent arguments I had made about the x86_64 transition, such as that it's being tested by more people than ever in more imaginative ways than ever before, etc... by greatly reducing the scope of, and the users of, such interesting configurations.
Absolutely.

It took me a long time to get off of my butt and start using the x86_64 community license (real life kept intruding) but once I finally did, I found and reported a bug within a few weeks. I've been doing that for decades, starting when I was in high school in the early 1970s: I found a security flaw in the RDOS operating system on Data General's Nova computers - showed my teacher, he reported it to DG, they patched it. For DEC, I found a bug in RSX-11M in the early 1980s, submitted an SPR with code to fix it (source code was in the distribution kit), they acknowledged it and patched it. And I've found-and-reported many bugs in VMS over the years too. "Hobbyists" can, and do, try all sorts of unusual things that find edge cases that production sites don't have the freedom to experiment with!


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Re: Updates to the Community Program

Post by sword7 » Thu Mar 28, 2024 12:12 pm

I do not like pre-installed VM packs. I prefer installation media files that I downloaded from SP site so that I can install them from scratch and customize OpenVMS base, networking and language programming.

What are any requirements for joining to the Ambassador program? I already have experience with OpenVMS base, networking and language programming that I used for many years. I was able setup OpenVMS x86 on KVM (qemu) and VirtualBox on Windows and Linux from installment media files.

Tim


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Re: Updates to the Community Program

Post by reinhardtjh » Fri Mar 29, 2024 12:14 am

sword7 wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2024 12:12 pm
What are any requirements for joining to the Ambassador program?
Go here: OpenVMS Licenses

Scroll down to the "Ambassador license" and click the "this form" link there.
John H. Reinhardt
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Re: Updates to the Community Program

Post by kerky » Fri Mar 29, 2024 6:01 am

I fully understand this new approach to community licensing.

For a legit hobbyist usage, having to re-install and eventually backup/restore, or have two installations and move the licenses shouldn't be much of an issue.

If you have a serious problem with that you're probably running production-like or persistent workloads or doing some sort of development for profit on your hobbyist system, which is sort of no-no under the community / hobbyist license agreement. I understand how nice and tempting this might be, but that's not and never was the purpose of the hobbyist licensing program, even when it was back in the hands of HP.

VMSSoftware is a company, not a non-profit, and they need to proetct their Intellectual Property, work and investment.

Too much nagging and whining on this will probably get the community project discontinued altogether, and we'll be left with nothing.

As far as that NO NEW community licenses will be accepted for Alpha and Integrity, it does make sense as well. Anyone with a legitimate interest in running a hobbyist installation on these OLD and DISCONTINUED for quite long hardware could have applied for a community license by now. Also, I can understand that VMSSoftware would like to focus their resources on a platform that is current and is going to be around for a long time like X86. Continuing to provide support for Alpha and Integrity has a cost to them, and they need to focus resources on what they will be able to sell for profit.

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Re: Updates to the Community Program

Post by mister.moderator » Fri Mar 29, 2024 7:08 am

pocketprobe wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2024 11:21 pm
I'm interpreting this as no licensing for additional layered products, updates, and eventual service portal lockout. Is this interpretation correct?
Community users will still have license to compilers and some layered products. Portal access will be cut off for the community users.
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Re: Updates to the Community Program

Post by gdwnldsksc » Fri Mar 29, 2024 7:13 am

kerky wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2024 6:01 am
For a legit hobbyist usage, having to re-install and eventually backup/restore, or have two installations and move the licenses shouldn't be much of an issue.

If you have a serious problem with that you're probably running production-like or persistent workloads or doing some sort of development for profit on your hobbyist system, which is sort of no-no under the community / hobbyist license agreement. I understand how nice and tempting this might be, but that's not and never was the purpose of the hobbyist licensing program, even when it was back in the hands of HP.

As far as that NO NEW community licenses will be accepted for Alpha and Integrity, it does make sense as well. Anyone with a legitimate interest in running a hobbyist installation on these OLD and DISCONTINUED for quite long hardware could have applied for a community license by now. Also, I can understand that VMSSoftware would like to focus their resources on a platform that is current and is going to be around for a long time like X86. Continuing to provide support for Alpha and Integrity has a cost to them, and they need to focus resources on what they will be able to sell for profit.
Having a configured and tuned open-source development environment for your purposes takes a while, and between OS revs backup/restore will not be possible of the system disk.

There's many reasons why.

Nevermind the fact that a few of us have been finding interesting bugs and edge cases and even experimenting on physical hardware which have lead to actual production shipping fixes!

I know many people who have installs that have been configured and baking since 9.2 at least, and are in no way shape or form commercial usage. This directly impacts them.

----------------

Non-commercial (eg freely released or open-source) development has always been encouraged and is why all the compiler and native development tools were always included.

But as noted above, with an incomplete system (x86), I can't even port/post half of the stuff I've been eager to do to x86 that I wrote it 20 years ago on an Alpha that would be released open source.

The point of the hobbyist program under HPe/Compaq/DEC was always to allow home users to use it fully featured however they wanted, as long as it was non-commercial. The sole purpose of the hobbyist program was to allow hobbyists a legitimate way to use VMS on hardware/whatever however they wanted in non-business home-use settings.

VSI cited "lack of community engagement" - on a platform that many can't port to yet because it's still incomplete.

---------------
 
As for the no NEW licenses -

The hobbyist AXP/IA64 licenses expire after a year.

Then you're left with a brick.

Yes, I have the hobbyist/community license, yes, they're giving one more year renewal, after that.... nothing.

Once the last set expires, that's it. done. those machines are toast. License is done, nothing will work except local console and no network.... Left in the dark. Not even a perpetual PAK issued for those who have existing hobbyist licenses.
Last edited by gdwnldsksc on Fri Mar 29, 2024 7:19 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Updates to the Community Program

Post by arne_v » Fri Mar 29, 2024 8:08 am

kerky wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2024 6:01 am
I fully understand this new approach to community licensing.
That makes you the first.
kerky wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2024 6:01 am
For a legit hobbyist usage, having to re-install and eventually backup/restore, or have two installations and move the licenses shouldn't be much of an issue.

If you have a serious problem with that you're probably running production-like or persistent workloads or doing some sort of development for profit on your hobbyist system, which is sort of no-no under the community / hobbyist license agreement.
Some CL users have a lot of stuff from two decades of hobbyist work.

And many open source software packages are just as big as commercial software packages.
kerky wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2024 6:01 am
As far as that NO NEW community licenses will be accepted for Alpha and Integrity, it does make sense as well. Anyone with a legitimate interest in running a hobbyist installation on these OLD and DISCONTINUED for quite long hardware could have applied for a community license by now.
And?

They expire.
kerky wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2024 6:01 am
Also, I can understand that VMSSoftware would like to focus their resources on a platform that is current and is going to be around for a long time like X86. Continuing to provide support for Alpha and Integrity has a cost to them, and they need to focus resources on what they will be able to sell for profit.
As far as I know then VSI is fully supporting VMS Alpha and VMS Itanium.

Question is about CL licenses for those platforms.
Arne
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VMS user since 1986


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Re: Updates to the Community Program

Post by daemonspudguy » Mon Apr 01, 2024 6:46 pm

reinhardtjh wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2024 12:14 am
sword7 wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2024 12:12 pm
What are any requirements for joining to the Ambassador program?
Go here: OpenVMS Licenses

Scroll down to the "Ambassador license" and click the "this form" link there.
So basically be ancient and not a newcomer to the world of OpenVMS. It does not help matters that if you want to get a GUI running on VMS for x86-64, well, you can't. Literally, CDE just does not load. Ever. And apparently there are no plans to fix it.
Last edited by daemonspudguy on Mon Apr 01, 2024 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Updates to the Community Program

Post by reinhardtjh » Mon Apr 01, 2024 6:53 pm

daemonspudguy wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2024 6:46 pm
reinhardtjh wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2024 12:14 am
sword7 wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2024 12:12 pm
What are any requirements for joining to the Ambassador program?
Go here: OpenVMS Licenses

Scroll down to the "Ambassador license" and click the "this form" link there.
So basically be ancient and not a newcomer to the world of OpenVMS.
Yeah. I want to apply for an Ambassador's license but the "Why should we accept you as an OpenVMS Ambassador?" question is intimidating and I've used VMS since V2.2 (or thereabouts). The problem is my last professional association ended in Dec 2002 and since then I've been pure hobbyist.
Last edited by reinhardtjh on Mon Apr 01, 2024 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Updates to the Community Program

Post by daemonspudguy » Mon Apr 01, 2024 6:54 pm

thunderbird32 wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2024 11:58 am
This decision is necessary to ensure a vibrant VMS Software OpenVMS community thrives and adapts to new technologies. Continuation of free licensing for old architectures does not incentivize community members to adapt to OpenVMS x86-64, virtualization, and future technology developments.
What also does not incentivize me to adopt OpenVMS x86-64 is changing the community license in such a drastic way. If the goal is to get me to learn and evangelize OpenVMS, putting a bad taste in my mouth by taking away the Alpha licensing sure isn't the way to go about getting me to do so. I understand what they're going for, but I don't think it will help with their goal.
I'm willing to go a little further. I think this will be the death of the OpenVMS Hobbyist scene. VSI is shooting themselves in the foot by changing the way the CLP works this drastically.
Last edited by daemonspudguy on Mon Apr 01, 2024 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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