OpenVMS Community License Program

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ajbrehm
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OpenVMS Community License Program

Post by ajbrehm » Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:07 am

As it says on the News page.

That's good news!

OpenVMS cannot just exist, it must also be visible. And visibility requires a) support of normal hardware and b) availability.

In my opinion this ranks with choosing Visual Studio Code as a developer tool as one of the decisions that makes OpenVMS usable for the non-VMS community.


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Re: OpenVMS Community License Program

Post by snadow » Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:17 pm


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Re: OpenVMS Community License Program

Post by ajbrehm » Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:31 pm

Yes, I know. That's what I was referring to.


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Re: OpenVMS Community License Program

Post by willemgrooters » Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:42 pm

My question is what this license covers. The good-old DEC/Compaq/HP(E) version covers almost everything (Encryption excluded).There is no information on this. And if I read the EULA correctly, you can use it on one machine at a time: that means that you cannot run a cluster, and you are nit able to develop (and test_ cluster-aware software. Second, in my case, would render the configuration useless since most development files are on MSCP-served disks while most systems have too little room on theirs.)

Since you have the license - no matter how useful - you still need the software. How to get this?


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Re: OpenVMS Community License Program

Post by marty.stu » Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:29 am

Hi Willem,

Your question is partially covered by our Q&A that was created based on the questions about the program we've got so far. In short, access to clustering depends on the platform that the license is issued to. The VSI Community license includes both ALPHA-SYSTEM and ALPHA-LP PAKs that give access to clustering, but we don't include HAOE in the list of PAKs on Integrity that we will send to those who applied for the community license, which means that you can't use clustering on Integrity.

The guide on how to download the images and the software will be provided with the license download link.

Kind regards,

Maxim Megalinskiy
VSI Training Team
Run to the bedroom, In the suitcase on the left You'll find my favorite axe.


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Re: OpenVMS Community License Program

Post by reinhardtjh » Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:28 am

Hi Maxim,
I just got my VSI CLP PAKs today and found this message board. The lack of clustering for Integrity is disappointing. VMS Clustering is a main point of the operating system. May I ask what is the reasoning for leaving it out of the Integrity licenses? There are other points in the HAOE as well such as Volume Shadowing, I believe? Many of us hobbyists use that as well. What are we to do on our Integrity systems? I have DS10 systems clustered with Integrity systems. I will have to break the cluster and move/copy/duplicate the storage. How will I keep my VMS system management skills active if I can't do certain things with Integrity? Hopefully when x86 comes out we will not be limited there.

Thanks.
John H. Reinhardt
Last edited by reinhardtjh on Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
John H. Reinhardt
  • VMS user since 1981


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Re: OpenVMS Community License Program

Post by marty.stu » Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:42 am

Hi John,

The reasoning behind this is that Integrity is the most current platform that OpenVMS is offered on at the moment. VMS Software wants to protect its intellectual property from commercial use this way, as shadowing and clustering are aimed at the enterprise-class systems since they provide more redundancy and fail safety.

Another reason behind this decision was that, although HPE provided full license PAK for Integrity at the time their hobbyist program was active, their license agreement was clearly forbidding its use on multiple machines, and although I've seen comments on comp.os.vms and other media saying that you could send them multiple requests and they provided a set of licenses for each of them, this will definitely not happen in case of VSI.

Still, we understand your arguments and have forwarded your comment to those who are responsible for the concept of this program.

Thank you,

Maxim Megalinskiy
VSI Training Team
Run to the bedroom, In the suitcase on the left You'll find my favorite axe.


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Re: OpenVMS Community License Program

Post by reinhardtjh » Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:10 am

Hi Maxim,

Thank you for your response. I can understand the reasoning behind the decision, although I really hope that it might change. I am surprised at the news about the HP version and had to go back and look for the license agreement. I found it in the file sent and, yes, it clearly does state that the license is good for only one system. I guess the HP License did not get the close examination by the Hobbyist community when they started administrating it themselves. I would expect many Hobbyists (myself included) are in technical violation. :(

I do hope that the people in charge can be persuaded to change their mind, however as, again, VMS Clustering is a major feature and there will be a certain number of Hobbyists that will want to do it. Especially with the upcoming x86 release. Is there an email or way of communicating with someone our request or is this forum the best place to be asking?

Another question that has come up is about the language compilers on Integrity. They aren't listed specifically in the license PAKs that were given yet they are in the download area for installation. Are they included in VSI's BOE? I know they weren't in the HP version. Was their omission an error or oversight?

Thanks for your time.
Last edited by reinhardtjh on Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.
John H. Reinhardt
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Re: OpenVMS Community License Program

Post by reinhardtjh » Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:39 pm

Hi again Maxim,

In looking back at my old emails from HP having to do with the Hobbyist program I want to show you, while the text in the file generated for each PAK set may have stated that the license was for a single system, the email itself that was sent stated that the licenses could be used for more than one. See the quotation below:
Hello John,

Please see attached for PAKs to use on your VAX/Alpha and Integrity server.
The attached are DCL command files; to load your PAKs simply execute them.

$ @Hobbyist-USE-ONLY-xxx.txt


Please let me know if you have any issues.

Best Regards,
Hari.

Note:
You can use these PAKs on multiple installations you may have.
There is no need to request PAKs per-instance of OpenVMS if you have more than one

There are useful links and pointers to Newsgroups and Forums where you can post questions and get answers.

Pointer to kit download available upon request via email to me, specify hardware platform (VAX/Alpha/Integrity).

The end of this message contains FAQ's I've been asked with brief answers.
This text is in each of the emails I got from HP going back to 2013. Even in 2012, the first year the HP took over the program from Montagar, I was told by John Egolf that it was okay to request just one PAK set per platform (VAX/Alpha and Integrity) and use them on more than one system.
On 2/1/2012 6:53 AM, Egolf, John wrote:
> John,
>
> No need to register each system. You can use the PAKs I sent to you on all YOUR systems (they are not to be distributed to others).
>
> This should be easier for you (and us).
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Regards,
>
> /John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John H. Reinhardt [mailto:johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 7:42 AM
> To: Egolf, John
> Subject: Re: [OpenVMS.org] Hobbyist Registration
>
> Dear Mr Egof,
>
> Thank you very much for your very quick response to my request for OpenVMS Hobbyist PAKs. I know the process isn't quite set up so I've just requested one for each of VAX/Alpha and Integrity. I wonder what the final process will be for people with multiple systems? I've been quite a collector and currently have 3 Alpha, 4 Integrity and a VAX
> (Sim-11) systems that could be running. When David Cathey was doing registrations I would register each system separately but I don't want to overload anyone yet with multiple requests. If you have time (and there's no hurry) I'd appreciate a heads up.
>
> Once again, thanks.
>
> John H. Reinhardt
> OpenVMS user since 1981
>
Based on your comments I think you have access to the discussions on comp.os.vms but here is a quote from someone there that also makes a good point:
Simon Clubley wrote:If they also don't allow clustering in the hobbyist licence for x86-64,
then that could be a really big mistake. People are more likely to check
out this new thing called VMS if it's got a unique selling point that they
can play with free of charge.

VMS style operating system level clustering combined with HBVS support
is still unique enough that it might attract people to learning how to
use it as a hobbyist and then compare it to other clustering solutions
they are aware of.

Take those things away and VMS doesn't really have anything unique over
what you can do elsewhere.


Thank you for your time, Maxim and if there is a better way to let the people in charge know of our requests, please let me know so I can spread the word.
John H. Reinhardt
  • VMS user since 1981


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Re: OpenVMS Community License Program

Post by marty.stu » Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:28 am

Hi John,

Let me comment on some of your questions and statements.
reinhardtjh wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:38 pm
I found it in the file sent and, yes, it clearly does state that the license is good for only one system. I guess the HP License did not get the close examination by the Hobbyist community when they started administrating it themselves. I would expect many Hobbyists (myself included) are in technical violation. :(
This part of their license agreement was a surprise for me as well as I know that the OpenVMS community is very careful about the details, even if they are hidden between the lines, but this was indeed HPE's requirement. As I'm not a lawyer, I can't comment in what degree this statement was in line with what you were said by Hary and John Egolf back in the days, but remember that HPE had other priorities, at least by the look of it. This could be one of the reasons they disregarded their own rules and were just providing everything for free, without paying too much attention on how the licenses were used by their subscribers.
reinhardtjh wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:38 pm
I do hope that the people in charge can be persuaded to change their mind, however as, again, VMS Clustering is a major feature and there will be a certain number of Hobbyists that will want to do it. Especially with the upcoming x86 release. Is there an email or way of communicating with someone our request or is this forum the best place to be asking?
Well, the best way of discussing this publicly is indeed this forum. A slightly less convenient communication channel is our email info@vmssoftware.com. If one wants to convey their thoughts in private, using it is fine. Still, in most cases we will only be able to forward them to higher management or answer the questions that aren't covered by NDA, so you shouldn't expect to get much more info than we are allowed to communicate on this forum.
reinhardtjh wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:38 pm
Another question that has come up is about the language compilers on Integrity. They aren't listed specifically in the license PAKs that were given yet they are in the download area for installation. Are they included in VSI's BOE? I know they weren't in the HP version. Was their omission an error or oversight?
This was indeed an oversight. We have replaced the archive on the server, and by following the same link in the email, you should be able to download an updated script that contains the full set of PAKs for the compilers on Integrity. ALPHA-LP already covers all of them, so the Alpha set remained untouched.
reinhardtjh wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:39 pm
Based on your comments I think you have access to the discussions on comp.os.vms but here is a quote from someone there that also makes a good point:
Simon Clubley wrote:If they also don't allow clustering in the hobbyist licence for x86-64,
then that could be a really big mistake. People are more likely to check
out this new thing called VMS if it's got a unique selling point that they
can play with free of charge.VMS style operating system level clustering combined with HBVS support
is still unique enough that it might attract people to learning how to
use it as a hobbyist and then compare it to other clustering solutions
they are aware of.Take those things away and VMS doesn't really have anything unique over
what you can do elsewhere.
Yes, I follow more or less regularly what is being posted on comp.os.vms and have seen Simon's comment on HBVS and clustering, and he indeed has some valid points, but keep in mind that we are still providing the student kit (and there are no plans to change this in the foreseeable future) along with the emulator which can be used if one really wants to try how clustering and shadowing work on OpenVMS. The chances that anyone would buy a couple of Integrity servers with an MSA only to try clustering and volume shadowing seem to me pretty low, especially compared to having an x86 host with the amount of RAM sufficient to run a couple of emulated instances of Alphas.
reinhardtjh wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:39 pm
Thank you for your time, Maxim and if there is a better way to let the people in charge know of our requests, please let me know so I can spread the word.
Thank you for your questions, John. This program was released only recently and we value any feedback about its implementation, terms and conditions, and technical aspects.

Kind regards,

Maxim Megalinskiy
VSI Training Team
Last edited by marty.stu on Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Run to the bedroom, In the suitcase on the left You'll find my favorite axe.

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