DECwindows not working properly (V9.2-1)

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iblowmymind
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Re: DECwindows not working properly (V9.2-1)

Post by iblowmymind » Thu Apr 13, 2023 3:48 pm

Thank you! Let me know if I can do anything else to help (ie, provide better explanation of the issue)


mickenx
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Re: DECwindows not working properly (V9.2-1)

Post by mickenx » Sat Apr 15, 2023 6:35 pm

Related: Will XFS be a part of x86? It would benefit a lot from it since remote X11 is the only way. I am using my alpha now as font server.

No difference with CDE, but at least fonts are completely out ruled.


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Re: DECwindows not working properly (V9.2-1)

Post by nix23 » Thu Apr 20, 2023 4:13 am

Just to add some information, the "old" DECWindows works, but ending the session is not going back to the Login-Window.

And some other interesting thing, if i start "set display/create/node=192.168.1.xxx/transport=tcpip/server=1/exec" the Web Management(WebUI)/CIVETWEB crashes.
Last edited by nix23 on Thu Apr 20, 2023 5:09 am, edited 5 times in total.


agn453
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Re: DECwindows not working properly (V9.2-1)

Post by agn453 » Mon May 08, 2023 6:12 pm

tim.stegner wrote:
Thu Apr 13, 2023 3:40 pm
i'll refer this to the forum monitor for elevation to support.
Just confirming that I also see this when accessing the system from an X-terminal
emulation via XDM. Login is fine, but dtfile aborts and prevents the window manager
from starting.

Tony

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Re: DECwindows not working properly (V9.2-1)

Post by dmjb » Thu Jun 15, 2023 3:40 pm

Tried again with the new V9.2-1 release and CDE still fails to start. `DTFILE.EXE` still throws an ACCVIO, but it looks like a different one from what I saw previously:

Code: Select all

X Toolkit Warning:
    Name: fast_rename
    Class: XmTextField
    XmFontListInitFontContext Failed.

%SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=04, virtual address=00000000031F
8734, PC=FFFF83000ABB828D, PS=0000001B
%TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows
image     module    routine               line      rel PC           abs PC
Error: last state machine operation was not end_sequence
DECW$XMLIBSHR12  XMSTRING.C;1           #39724 000000008003D28D FFFF83000ABB828D
Error: last state machine operation was not end_sequence
DECW$XMLIBSHR12  TEXTF.C;1              #55889 00000000801AD764 FFFF83000AD28764
Error: last state machine operation was not end_sequence
DECW$XMLIBSHR12  TEXTF.C;1              #56361 00000000801AEF76 FFFF83000AD29F76
Error: last state machine operation was not end_sequence
DECW$XMLIBSHR12  TEXTF.C;1              #57461 00000000801B462B FFFF83000AD2F62B
DECW$XTLIBSHRR5  CREATE.C;1             #26684 000000008001352F FFFF83000AADA52F
DECW$XTLIBSHRR5  CREATE.C;1             #26874 00000000800143F9 FFFF83000AADB3F9
DECW$XTLIBSHRR5  CREATE.C;1             #27028 000000008001521B FFFF83000AADC21B
DECW$XTLIBSHRR5  CREATE.C;1             #27057 0000000080012885 FFFF83000AAD9885
Error: last state machine operation was not end_sequence
DECW$XMLIBSHR12  TEXTF.C;1              #59999 00000000801950B8 FFFF83000AD100B8
DTFILE  FILEMGR.C;1  Create             #58167 000000008007D4DF 000000008007D4DF
DTFILE  ENCAPS.C;1  _DtShowDialog       #42391 0000000080137371 0000000080137371
DTFILE  MAIN.C;1  GetNewView            #60388 00000000800036FE 00000000800036FE
DTFILE  MAIN.C;1  OpenDirectories       #59972 000000008000BAC4 000000008000BAC4
DTFILE  MAIN.C;1  ViewHomeDirectoryHandler
                                        #61219 000000008000D2D5 000000008000D2D5
DTFILE  MAIN.C;1  main                  #58175 00000000800151B5 00000000800151B5
DTFILE  MAIN.C;1  __main                #57348 00000000800152D7 00000000800152D7
PTHREAD$RTL                                  0 000000008004122C FFFF83000A10322C
PTHREAD$RTL                                  0 0000000080002316 FFFF83000A0C4316
                                             0 FFFF8300085FBEA6 FFFF8300085FBEA6
DCL                                          0 000000008006778B 000000007ADFF78B
%TRACE-I-LINENUMBER, Leading '#' specifies a source file record number.
%TRACE-I-END, end of TRACE stack dump
Last edited by dmjb on Fri Jun 16, 2023 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: DECwindows not working properly (V9.2-1)

Post by iblowmymind » Fri Jun 16, 2023 10:43 am

Thanks for confirming, I was going to check if it was fixed or not just now.


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Re: DECwindows not working properly (V9.2-1)

Post by marty.stu » Fri Jul 07, 2023 4:44 pm

Dear all,

Our dev team analyzed the issue and came to a conclusion that the described behavior is caused by the fact that the reporting persons try the unsupported method to run DECwindows directly through a binary file. Instead, one should use a command procedure, e.g.

Code: Select all

$!=====================================================================!$!* This program has not been through an exhaustive field test process.*
$!* Due to the experimental stage of this software workaround,         *
$!* VMS Software Inc. makes no representations regarding its use,      *
$!* or performance. VMS Software Inc. accepts no responsibility for    *
$!* any expenses, losses or action incurred or undertaken by any       *
$!* party as a result of their use of this software.                   * $!*                                                                    *
$!* This software is provided "AS IS" and "WITH ALL FAULTS".           *
$!* VMS Software Inc. provides no warranties either express and        *
$!* implied in law, including IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY    *
$!* AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. In no event shall VMS        *
$!* Software Inc. have any liability whatsoever incidental and         * $!* consequential damages as a result of the performance, use or       * $!* operation of this software.                                        *
$!*                                                                    *
$!* The customer shall have the sole responsibility for                *
$!* adequate protection and backup data used in conjunction with       *
$!* the above software workaround.                                     *
$!*                                                                    *
$!* We cannot guarantee the effectiveness of this program because of   *
$!* the possibility of error in transmitting or implementing it.       *
$!* It is meant to be used as a template for writing your own          *
$!* program, and it may require modification for use on your own       *
$!* system.                                                            *
$!*                   © VMS Software Inc. 2023                         *$!=====================================================================!
$ set noverify
$ define sys$output sys$login:startcde.log
$ on error then continue
$!
$! Set the display to point to the display server.
$   set display/create/node=192.168.1.17/server=0/screen=0/trans=tcpip
$!
$! Connect to the Font Server to provide DECWindows Fonts on systems
$! that does not provide any DECWindows fonts. (Like VNC).
$!
$ spawn/nowait mcr sys$common:[syshlp.examples.decw.utils]xset -
    +fp tcp/192.168.1.103:7100
$!
$ if p1 .eqs. "XDM"
$ then
$    @sys$sysdevice:[rickr]xdm_xsession.com
$ else
$    SPAWN/NOWAIT MCR CDE$SYSTEM_DEFAULTS:[BIN]DTHELLO
$    wait 00:00:02
$    @CDE$SYSTEM_DEFAULTS:[BIN]XSESSION.COM
$ endif
$ LOGOUT

<EOF>
However, when testing, we have found errors in some other components, such as XSESSION.COM that had gone unnoticed on IA-64 and the non-functional XDM component in TCP/IP. They will eventually be fixed.

Thank you everyone for your help.
Run to the bedroom, In the suitcase on the left You'll find my favorite axe.

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Re: DECwindows not working properly (V9.2-1)

Post by dmjb » Fri Jul 07, 2023 8:10 pm

Thanks for sharing the script. Unfortunately, my attempts to get it running (after modifying it for my environment) yield the same result as I had when attempting to run SYS$SYSTEM:DECW$STARTLOGIN directly.

One detail I notice in the script is that it explicitly sets a font server, and I assume that the font server IP in the script is meant to be the IP of the VMS system itself. I have done some searching to figure out how to start the font server since it does not appear to be running by default (i.e. if I run nmap against my VM, I do not see anything listening on port 7100). Some older documentation refers to copying SYS$MANAGER:DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.TEMPLATE to SYS$MANAGER:DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.COM and making some changes (the template no longer exists), defining the DECW$START_FONT_SERVER logical to be true using DEFINE/SYSTEM (didn't seem to make a difference) or running SYS$SYSTEM:DECW$XFS.EXE by hand (file does not exist).

Is the use of the font server significant here, and if so - how should I ensure that it is running? Note that I am using a relatively new V9.2-1 VM on top of KVM.

EDIT: Since the script sets up a log file, here is the output from my machine. First one is with the script pointing the non-existent font server on my VMS VM:

Code: Select all

$ TYPE STARTCDE.LOG;4
%DCL-S-SPAWNED, process DMJB_23383 spawned
%DCL-S-SPAWNED, process DMJB_28281 spawned
X Error of failed request:  BadValue (integer parameter out of range for operati
on)
  Major opcode of failed request:  51 (X_SetFontPath)
  Value in failed request:  0x0
  Serial number of failed request:  9
  Current serial number in output stream:  11
x86vms$dka0:[sys0.syscommon.cde$defaults.system.][bin]dthello.exe;1: display _WS
A12: doesn't know font -dt-interface system-medium-r-normal-xl*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Executing SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGIN


Executing mcr cde$system_defaults:[bin]dtsession


Exiting XSESSION.COM
With the command to set the font server commented out:

Code: Select all

%DCL-S-SPAWNED, process DMJB_29377 spawned
x86vms$dka0:[sys0.syscommon.cde$defaults.system.][bin]dthello.exe;1: display _WS
A14: doesn't know font -dt-interface system-medium-r-normal-xl*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Executing SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGIN


Executing mcr cde$system_defaults:[bin]dtsession
Here is my local copy of the script:

Code: Select all

$ TYPE X.COM
$! Copyright omitted for brevity
$ set noverify
$ define sys$output sys$login:startcde.log
$ on error then continue
$!
$! Set the display to point to the display server.
$   set display/create/node=<IP of my host where the X server is running>/server=3/screen=0/trans=tcpip
$!
$! Connect to the Font Server to provide DECWindows Fonts on systems
$! that does not provide any DECWindows fonts. (Like VNC).
$!
$! spawn/nowait mcr sys$common:[syshlp.examples.decw.utils]xset -
$!    +fp tcp/<ip of VMS VM>:7100
$!
$ if p1 .eqs. "XDM"
$ then
$! does not appear to be relevant - commenting out
$!    @sys$sysdevice:[rickr]xdm_xsession.com
$ else
$    SPAWN/NOWAIT MCR CDE$SYSTEM_DEFAULTS:[BIN]DTHELLO
$    wait 00:00:02
$    @CDE$SYSTEM_DEFAULTS:[BIN]XSESSION.COM
$ endif
$ LOGOUT
Screenshot of what I see on the X server:
Screenshot from 2023-07-08 01-15-20.png
Last edited by dmjb on Mon Jul 10, 2023 4:45 am, edited 4 times in total.


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Re: DECwindows not working properly (V9.2-1)

Post by sms » Sat Jul 08, 2023 12:29 am

Code: Select all

> [...] I assume that the font server IP in the script is meant to be
> the IP of the VMS system itself. [...]

   If your intent is to _run_ the font server on this system, then sure. 
Presumably, if you have one or more font servers running elsewhere, then
you might want to specify the addresses (not the Internet Protocol) of
_those_ systems some place.  (See "DECW$FONT_SERVERS", below.)

> [...] Some older documentation [...]

   Thanks for the helpful link(s).

> [...] copying SYS$MANAGER:DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.TEMPLATE to
> SYS$MANAGER:DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.COM and making some changes
> [...]

   "some changes" is a bit vague.

> [...] (the template no longer exists), [...]

   Get a pre-x86_64 system, and explore?

   Among the "useful symbols that can be modified by the user" are:

[...]
$ ! DECW$FONT_SERVERS
$ !
$ !   This symbol identifies which font servers will be added to the
$ !   end of the server's font path.  The syntax for these entries
$ !   is:
$ !             "tcp/node:7100"         for TCP/IP access
$ !             "dnet/node::7100"       for DECnet access
$ !
$ !   The port number (default: 7100) identifies the TCP/IP port
$ !   or DECnet object name used to access the font server.  Check
$ !   the specific font server documentation and with the system
$ !   manager of the system on which the font server is running to
$ !   get the correct port number.  The default for both OpenVMS
$ !   and Compaq TRU64 UNIX is 7100.
$ !
$ ! DECW$START_FONT_SERVER
$ !
$ !   This symbol specifies whether the font server (DECW$XFS) should
$ !   be started on this node.  The font server can be added to the
$ !   server's font path using the DECW$FONT_SERVERS symbol described
$ !   above.  The fonts known to the font server and the port number used
$ !   can be modified by editing the file SYS$MANAGER:DECW$FS_CONFIG.DAT.
$ !   To start a font server on this node define DECW$START_FONT_SERVER
$ !   to be TRUE.
[...]

> [...] defining the DECW$START_FONT_SERVER logical to be true using
> DEFINE/SYSTEM (didn't seem to make a difference) [...]

   Among the potential problems here is the fact that these "useful
symbols that can be modified by the user" are actually _symbols_, not
logical names.  More comments from the .TEMPLATE file which reflect
that:

[...]
$ ! Here are some example setup options that are commented out:
$ !
$ ! decw$server_density == "100"
$ ! decw$server_default_visual_class == "1"
$ ! decw$default_keyboard_map == "US_LK201AA"
$ ! decw$server_transports == "DECNET,LOCAL,TCPIP"
$ ! decw$server_audit_level == "1"
$ ! decw$server_disable_test == "T"
[...]

> [...] running SYS$SYSTEM:DECW$XFS.EXE by hand (file does not exist).

   It's not unique that way.  A quick "dire sys$system:decw$*" on IA64
v. X86_64 gave:

Total of 40 files.  [IA64 V8.4-2L3]
Total of 34 files.  [x86_64 E9.2-1]

   Differences:

DECW$FONTCOMPILER.EXE
DECW$SERVER_MAIN.EXE
DECW$UILMOTIF.EXE
DECW$UILMOTIF_TIE_SUPPORT.EXE
DECW$WML_TIE_SUPPORT.EXE
DECW$XFS.EXE

   SYS$MANAGER:DECW$STARTSERVER.COM is read ("@") by
SYS$MANAGER:STARTSERVER.COM, which is what normally would RUN
(/DETACHED) SYS$SYSTEM:DECW$XFS.  But if you ain't got the .EXE, then
the benefit of having the .COM might be small.

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Re: DECwindows not working properly (V9.2-1)

Post by dmjb » Sat Jul 08, 2023 5:59 am

If your intent is to _run_ the font server on this system, then sure.
Presumably, if you have one or more font servers running elsewhere, then
you might want to specify the addresses (not the Internet Protocol) of
_those_ systems some place. (See "DECW$FONT_SERVERS", below.)
Given that the script provided by marty.stu has the following comment:

Code: Select all

$! Connect to the Font Server to provide DECWindows Fonts on systems
$! that does not provide any DECWindows fonts. (Like VNC).
I assume that the server must indeed be running on VMS to serve up the fonts which DECwindows expects to find. My local X server is running on a Linux (specifically Pop OS 22.04) system using Xephyr 21.1.4, and based on the amount of font-related warnings I see when running marty.stu's script, I assume that running the font server may be required to get this script to work. Examples of the warnings I see:

Code: Select all

X Toolkit Warning: Cannot convert string "-dt-interface user-medium-r-normal-m*-
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*" to type FontStruct
X Toolkit Warning: Cannot convert string "-*-Menu-Medium-R-Normal--*-120-*-*-P-*
-ISO8859-1" to type FontStruct
X Toolkit Warning: Cannot convert string "-dt-interface user-medium-r-normal-m*-
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*" to type FontStruct
X Toolkit Warning: Cannot convert string "-*-Menu-Medium-R-Normal--*-120-*-*-P-*
-ISO8859-1" to type FontStruct
"some changes" is a bit vague.
The exact script I am running is included at the end of my previous post. The only omitted details are my local IP addresses.
Get a pre-x86_64 system, and explore?
The thought had occurred to me, but unfortunately I am not likely to have access to my VAX or Alpha hardware for the foreseeable future.
Among the potential problems here is the fact that these "useful
symbols that can be modified by the user" are actually _symbols_, not
logical names. More comments from the .TEMPLATE file which reflect
that:
Noted, and thank you for providing a copy of the missing template file.
But if you ain't got the .EXE, then
the benefit of having the .COM might be small.
My assumption as well. Which leads to questions of "Is the font server required here, or optional?" and if it is required "Why is SYS$SYSTEM:DECW$XFS.EXE not present on a stock x86 VMS install?"

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