DECwindows not working properly (V9.2-1)

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marty.stu
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Re: DECwindows not working properly (V9.2-1)

Post by marty.stu » Wed Aug 02, 2023 12:52 pm

Hi all,

We need to apologize for the incorrect solution that we proposed in our previous answer. Due to internal misunderstanding, the script was taken from a working Integrity system and is incompatible with OpenVMS on x86 for the reasons listed below. Getting template files from other supported architectures will not help either. Now let us explain the reason of the issues you have encountered and why it is most probably impossible to fix them at the current state of the x86 port.
  1. At the moment, we do not provide the X server on OpenVMS on x86, hence your lack of the files called from the script.
  2. The OpenVMS X server, among many other things, through its XFS module, is responsible for providing fonts that are required by the built-in OpenVMS windows managers to run properly.
  3. DECterm relies on a subset of fonts known as the DECTech fonts. If DECTech is missing, DECTerm will switch to a fallback font named “fixed”. This font is not scalable and is hardly readable, especially on low-res monitors. CDE can also utilize this fallback font, however, using it will result in multiple font incompatibilities with your software and possible app crashes.
  4. Some commercial PC X servers (e.g. ReflectionX, eXceed) can make the DECTech fonts accessible for the OpenVMS windows managers if they are installed on the PC running the server. In some cases, the vendor may include a “Font Alias” file to the distribution that contains the font specifications required by CDE.
  5. Another workaround would be to collect the font and alias files from OpenVMS, move them to a local PC, and put them into the appropriate subdirectories of the PC X server you are using. The CDE Font Alias files can also be transferred to the PC. However, there is no guarantee that this will help CDE Sessions work correctly on your PC.
  6. You may also be able to obtain the RAW font files from the Internet and use the PC X server’s font compiler to convert the RAW fonts and use them. However, they may be hard to find nowadays, and you need to be familiar with how to convert these RAW fonts to the format supported by the X server you are running.
  7. Installing the correct set of fonts still does not fix the problem with running a CDE Session as it will keep hanging up on the DTHELLO process which waits for the window manager to signal DTHELLO that it has started and is mapping the windows.
  8. Since there are other X server related components missing on OpenVMS, one may or may not be able to run their GUI-based applications on x86. It is possible to find out if the application is compatible with the above described configurations only through trial and error. We will be grateful for reported successful attempts here on the forum (preferably in a separate thread), along with the configuration that proved to be working.
  9. OpenSSH V8.9-1* on x86 does not support X11Forwarding. The $ SET DISPLAY command must be issued manually from an interactive DCL session or sent via a startup script.
In short, to have a chance to successfully run CDE- and/or DECwindows-based apps on x86, one needs to either convert/install the DECTech fonts set to their PC and put them to the appropriate local X server directories or use an X server that provides them as part of a standard distribution; start the target application on OpenVMS; properly set the display settings via the $ SET DISPLAY command with appropriate parameters; connect to the application directly from a local X server; and check that the application is running and properly displayed. Unfortunately, no real desktop sessions are possible in either of the window managers, so currently there exists no known way to work around the missing desktop issue that was described in the OP.

In the end, unfortunately, we cannot guarantee that after all the above manipulations the app is properly displayed or even that the session at all starts.
Run to the bedroom, In the suitcase on the left You'll find my favorite axe.

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dmjb
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Re: DECwindows not working properly (V9.2-1)

Post by dmjb » Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:50 pm

Thanks for the detailed update marty.stu. Will give some of the font-related workarounds a try and report back when I have the chance.

Are there any plans to add the missing X11/DECwindows components to VMS x86 in the future?


marty.stu
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Re: DECwindows not working properly (V9.2-1)

Post by marty.stu » Thu Aug 03, 2023 4:03 pm

Are there any plans to add the missing X11/DECwindows components to VMS x86 in the future?
No such plans for now as there's no commercial market for GUI-based apps on OpenVMS.
Run to the bedroom, In the suitcase on the left You'll find my favorite axe.


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Re: DECwindows not working properly (V9.2-1)

Post by babydr » Thu Aug 03, 2023 6:55 pm

@Marty.Stu , Then Does that also mean a similar lack of interest/need in fixing/enabling X11Forwarding too ?

"OpenSSH V8.9-1* on x86 does not support X11Forwarding. The $ SET DISPLAY command must be issued manually from an interactive DCL session or sent via a startup script."

Tia , JimL


marty.stu
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Re: DECwindows not working properly (V9.2-1)

Post by marty.stu » Fri Aug 04, 2023 7:13 am

Then Does that also mean a similar lack of interest/need in fixing/enabling X11Forwarding too ?
This feature is being considered. No ETA unfortunately.
Run to the bedroom, In the suitcase on the left You'll find my favorite axe.

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