VMS x86 V9.2-3, VMware VMDirectPath, HBA and Certified Storage

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VMS x86 V9.2-3, VMware VMDirectPath, HBA and Certified Storage

Post by m_detommaso » Tue Jan 21, 2025 1:45 pm

Starting with the V9.2-3 release, OpenVMS x86-64 supports the VMware VMDirectPath I/O feature, which allows VMware ESXi virtual machines to directly access the physical PCI devices of the host system, bypassing the virtualization layer. The use of this feature enables direct access to fibre channel disks (at the present OpenVMS V9.2-3 only supports the HPE SN1100Q Fibre Channel HBA), which can significantly improve the performance of shared data disks in a cluster (booting OpenVMS from a Fibre Channel disk is currently not possible).

Which storage models have been certified to work properly with VMS-x86 V9.2-3 ?

At the link https://vmssoftware.com/products/supported-platforms/ there is a list of storage devices from various brands certified with VMS versions for the Integrity platform, but I cannot find any storage devices certified with the VMS version for the x86 platform.

Last edited by m_detommaso on Tue Jan 21, 2025 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VMS x86 V9.2-3, VMware VMDirectPath, HBA and Certified Storage

Post by roberbrooks » Tue Jan 21, 2025 9:18 pm

The same arrays that work for IA64 will work for X86; we have not qualified any specificially for X86.
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Re: VMS x86 V9.2-3, VMware VMDirectPath, HBA and Certified Storage

Post by arne_v » Tue Jan 21, 2025 10:15 pm

So anything that works on VMS Itanium 8.4-2Lx should work on VMS x86-64 9.2-3 because you have ported all the drivers 1:1 but you do not have an official web page listing supported configs?

Meaning that:
* anyone just needing it to work are good
* anyone needing an official VSI page saying it will work due to company policy has a problem
?
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Re: VMS x86 V9.2-3, VMware VMDirectPath, HBA and Certified Storage

Post by m_detommaso » Wed Jan 22, 2025 6:56 am

Thanks Rob for your reply, I really appreciated it.

As we know, in mission critical and government environments (military, security, automation, public administration, national lotteries, just to name a few) it is not possible to move a millimeter or undertake migration projects if the architectures are not officially certified by the various vendors. For this reason, it would be desirable for VSI to update its site with compatibility matrices and storage certifications for VMS-x86 platforms, otherwise many projects may be frozen or, even worse, migrated to Linux or Windows solutions.

I would like to point out, however, that most of the VMS certified storage listed on VSI site have long been declared "End-of-life Sales" and "End-of-life Service", meaning they are no longer sold and supported by the vendors and are very difficult to repair if they fail.

It appears that only the high-end storage listed on VSI site is still sold and supported. If a customer with an entry-level storage (e.g. Unity 450 or msa2050) wants to migrate to VMS-86 and start a technology refresh at the same time, the project costs would increase to such an extent (due to the high cost of enterprise-class storage) that they would have to evaluate other alternatives (which means migrating to Linux or Windows).

And now that support for the ISCSI protocol is also on the horizon (it is expected for June 2026, as reported in the VSI roadmap), It would be desirable for the new storage models to be certified, otherwise it could be difficult for many customers to migrate to the VMS-x86 platform.

Last edited by m_detommaso on Thu Jan 23, 2025 4:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VMS x86 V9.2-3, VMware VMDirectPath, HBA and Certified Storage

Post by reinhardtjh » Sat Jan 25, 2025 6:50 pm

Crossing over from the SYS$LOST Thread to this seemed appropriate
roberbrooks wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2025 10:40 pm

I have also had corruption problems with P2000 G3's; I'll never use one again.
Oh, that's alarming. I have a P2000 G3 set at home as my SAN. I don't use it much as I don't have the A/C capacity to keep it all running in the Texas climate. I guess I've been lucky.

Perhaps it's time to check Ebay and see if something a little more modern is available for a reasonable price.
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Re: VMS x86 V9.2-3, VMware VMDirectPath, HBA and Certified Storage

Post by mberryman » Sun Jan 26, 2025 1:28 pm

Perhaps it was simply a bad part? I've had a P2000 G3 in continuous use for several years with nary an issue.

If and when an entry-level non-EOL storage controller is certified by VSI, I may upgrade. I'd like to get a controller that combines fibre channel with 10G iSCSI.


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Re: VMS x86 V9.2-3, VMware VMDirectPath, HBA and Certified Storage

Post by reinhardtjh » Sun Jan 26, 2025 3:35 pm

mberryman wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2025 1:28 pm
Perhaps it was simply a bad part? I've had a P2000 G3 in continuous use for several years with nary an issue.
That's good to know not all were a problem.
mberryman wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2025 1:28 pm
If and when an entry-level non-EOL storage controller is certified by VSI, I may upgrade. I'd like to get a controller that combines fibre channel with 10G iSCSI.
So far, I was just looking at the HP/HPE offerings, I think it's still an either/or situation. Even the most recent MSA2060/2062 has different controllers for 8/16GB FC, 10GB iSCSI and 12GB SAS
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Re: VMS x86 V9.2-3, VMware VMDirectPath, HBA and Certified Storage

Post by m_detommaso » Mon Jan 27, 2025 7:16 am


I prefer to continue the discussion in this thread, I don't want to be a nuisance in the other thread where the topic is "Understanding SYSLOST" (https://forum.vmssoftware.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=9364).

roberbrooks

Code: Select all

$ dir/file _$1$DGA1501:[SYSLOST.PROJECT.JOBS]TEST1_CODE.COM;6

Directory _$1$DGA1501:[SYSLOST.PROJECT.JOBS]

TEST1_CODE.COM;6   (210,2469,0)

$ dir/file PROJECT$ROOT:[JOBS]TEST1_CODE.COM;6

Directory PROJECT$ROOT:[000000.JOBS]

TEST1_CODE.COM;6   (210,2469,0)
You'll note that the FID is the same.

I have no idea how that happened.

I think your disk is a bit more messed up than you realize.

I have also had corruption problems with P2000 G3's; I'll never use one again.

You realize that even the newer MSA 2040's are past end-of-life, right?

I'd get a newer array if possible.
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-----------------------------
m_detommaso

Code: Select all

 roberbrooks wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2025 4:40 am

    You realize that even the newer MSA 2040's are past end-of-life, right?
    I'd get a newer array if possible.


Unfortunately all msa (Modula Storage Array) class storage certified by VSI have been clarified by the vendor "End-of_life Sales and Service".

https://vmssoftware.com/products/supported-platforms/

Code: Select all

Supported MSA storage arrays:

    MSA 1000 Active/Active (rx1600, rx2600, rx2620, rx2660, rx3600, rx6600, rx7640, and rx8640 only)
    MSA 1500 Active/Active (rx1600, rx2600, rx2620, rx2660, rx3600, rx6600, rx7640, and rx8640 only)
    MSA 2300fc
    P2000 G3 FC
    P2000 G3 FC/iSCSI (FC Connect)
    MSA 2040 FC
    MSA 2050/2052 FC (excl. rx1600, rx2600, and rx2620)
The evolution of this storage class is the msa2060/msa2062 family which however do not appear to have been certified by VSI. And this brings us back to the thread https://forum.vmssoftware.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=9362 (the few storage devices still certified appear to be very expensive compared to the msa solution - entry level class storage - and this forces customers to remain on current but dated architectures).

Now that standard support for VMS I64 V8.4-2L3 has been extended to 12/31/2035 and many customers are still unable to migrate to x86, it would be desirable for more modern storage models to be certified for the Integrity platform and x86 (VMDirectPath I/O functionality and future support of ISCSI).

-----------------------------

roberbrooks
> The evolution of this storage class is the msa2060/msa2062 family which however do not appear to have
> been certified by VSI.

I have mentioned this to our (VSI) management that I'd like to get an MSA2060 in house to qualify.

We actually began qualifying it over three years ago, and discovered that (at the time) it had broken firmware that
led to reproducible data corruption. Our storage test engineer retired at the end of 2022, prior to any new firmware being given to us. HPE requested the loaner they had sent us to be returned to them.

I've heard through the grapevine that newer firmware has fixed that problem, but until we can verify it ourselves we
cannot qualify it.
--
-- Rob

About eight months ago I started an internal DER (which enables a high priority channel with the HPE product manager to speed up the certification process) to request certification of the msa2060/msa2062 class storage with the VSI VMS V8.4-2l3 I64 release; I was working on a mission critical VMS customer who needed to upgrade his old and no longer supported P2000g3 (VMS cluster with two Integrity members and two P2000g3 + HBVS in dual-site split configuration for high availability - please note that for various technical reasons the customer could not migrate to x86 and was forced to remain on Integrity; this customer loved the VMS and really appreciated its reliability, robustness and cluster architecture).

The DER failed, it would appear, due to the unavailability of the VSI to certify the storage. The only certified and still supported storage listed on the VSI website are the high-end ones whose cost (multiplied by two devices) forced the customer to review his plans. In the end they decided to divert the money to a migration project on a Windows bare metal solution (OS that has no problem with certifications with the latest generation of storage devices); the project was successfully completed; they started to write the code from scratch with excellent results, and another VMS customer was lost.

With the support of VMDirectPath on Vmware and the "PCI Passthrough" in June 2025 on Linux KVM, and on the horizon the support of ISCSI, it would be desirable to resume the storage certifications with the most current models of the various brands (HPE, EMC, Hitachi, Pure Storage, Netapp) both for Integrity (mandatory certification in the mission critical and government sectors and for customers who cannot migrate to x86 but need to start a technological refresh at least of the storage subsystems) and for x86 (mandatory certification in the mission critical and government sectors).

I can ask the msa2060/msa2062 product management to open a channel with you and understand if and how to carry on this certification; If you agree, contact me offline.

Thank you so much for your replies and the support in this discussion.
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Re: VMS x86 V9.2-3, VMware VMDirectPath, HBA and Certified Storage

Post by turbomax73 » Wed Jan 29, 2025 9:31 am

Dear @VSI any news about this important and critical point for the future VMS business ? :shock:

Communicating with other accounts worldwide it seems that mission critical infrastructures are becoming a marginal and unimportant business for VSI... and this is generating sadness in the insiders... is it just our impression ? :?

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