OpenGL?

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sword7
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OpenGL?

Post by sword7 » Sun Apr 09, 2023 12:19 pm

Does OpenVMS for x86 support DECwindows and OpenGL/MesaGL for 3D animation/graphics?

Tim


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Re: OpenGL?

Post by iblowmymind » Sun Apr 09, 2023 2:16 pm

I don't think OpenVMS x86 (as well as Itanium) has graphic framebuffer support. This includes both a framebuffer terminal and X display functionality. The last architecture you could run DECwindows on the "native" display (ie. without a remote X display/XDM) was Alpha. Itanium and X86 require a serial port for the operator console, and has no native display support. (One day on X86, maybe?)

You can try running an X server on a seperate PC, I used this command line on Windows with VcXsrv:

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vcxsrv :0 -ac -nowgl -listen tcp -from 192.168.10.100
Then, on the VMS side:

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set display/create/node=(your X server's IP)/transport=tcpip/server=(your X server's no.)/exec
Then run:

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run sys$system:decw$startlogin.exe
To technically get a desktop, but I've not been able to do so on my end on 9.2-1 (dthelp starts, but mwm, dtterm and the rest of the desktop doesn't, leading to a black screen with a borderless dthelp window). Any help would be welcome on that...
Last edited by iblowmymind on Sun Apr 09, 2023 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: OpenGL?

Post by sms » Sun Apr 09, 2023 11:36 pm

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> I don't think OpenVMS x86 (as well as Itanium) has graphic framebuffer
> support.

   Half right?  On x86_64:

v87 $ show device g
%SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHDEV, no such device available

   On IA64:

ITS $ show device g

Device                  Device           Error
 Name                   Status           Count
GHA0:                   Online               0
GHB0:                   Online               0

(One of them is in a PCI slot.  The other is on the MP/iLO card?)

ITS $ tcpip show version

  HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Industry Standard 64 Version V5.7 - ECO 5
  on an HP rx2600  (1.50GHz/6.0MB) running OpenVMS V8.4-2L3

   According to SYS$SYSTEM:SYS$CONFIG.DAT, SYS$GHDRIVER.EXE seems to be
used with:
device          = "ATI Radeon 7500"
device          = "ATI Radeon 7000"
device          = "ES1000 2D Graphics"  (PCI or PCIe)


   I'd guess that sales of systems like the zx2000 and zx6000
workstations would have been even lower if they had had no graphics
support.

   I ignore the graphics on all my rx26x0 systems (and use serial
consoles) because they're too loud to sit near, not because they
couldn't do the job.  (The zx2000 is quieter, but it gets little use. 
As I recall, there was an "office-friendly" kit for the rx2600/zx6000,
with quieter fans, but I never saw one in real life.)


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Re: OpenGL?

Post by iblowmymind » Mon Apr 10, 2023 1:27 pm

I see, thank you for the info!
Creating own post for my issue, btw.
Last edited by iblowmymind on Mon Apr 10, 2023 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: OpenGL?

Post by joukj » Tue Apr 11, 2023 3:42 am

You can however run MESA in software simulation instead of in the graphic card. It will slow up, but works.


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sword7
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Re: OpenGL?

Post by sword7 » Tue Apr 11, 2023 8:05 am

Thanks for some replies. I hope that they will port their graphics drivers to OpenVMS x86 some day. There are open source graphics drivers for Linux elsewhere.

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Re: OpenGL?

Post by m_detommaso » Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:44 am

The core I/O of rx2660, rx2800i2, rx2800i4 and rx2800i6 Integrity class servers is equipped with built-in ATI RN50 2D graphics chip; this device is recognized by VMS as ES1000. The graphics chip is integrated with the management processor.

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TR Adapter     ADP               Hose Bus      BusArrayEntry     Node GSIN   iVec    SCB  Port Slot Device Name / HW-Id
-- ----------- ----------------- ---- -------------------------- ---- ------------------- ---- ---- ---------------------------
35 PCIE        FFFFFFFF.8936A340    0 0E PCIE  FFFFFFFF.8936AA48 E18  0013   00CB    14B0 GHA:    3 ES1000 2D Graphics
The RN50 graphics chipset is managed by the VMS GHdriver and Decwindow Motif / CDE are supported.

rx2800_vga_vms_motif.PNG

The AB551A option is a PCI ATI Radeon 7500 2D/3D Graphics Adapter for Integrity server. Also this graphic adapter is supported by VMS and Decwindow Motif / CDE through the usual GHdriver.

/Maurizio


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Re: OpenGL?

Post by cyb2600 » Wed May 03, 2023 2:18 pm

The BL860c i1 and i2 blades can do graphics and run openwindows as well if you plug a VGA cable into the SUV adapter in the front.


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Re: OpenGL?

Post by gdwnldsksc » Thu May 04, 2023 9:45 am

Bringing over a recent usenet post from comp.os.vms on this subject - someone had asked about Vulkan/OpenGL support....
Woah boy, Vulkan is definitely a hard no-go - the "newest" supported graphics board would be along the lines of the ATI Radeon 7500, which was released in 2001.

OpenGL did exist in some incarnations, and could possibly work if built on x86_64 with the old drivers/support, but unfortunately in the current V9.2 and E9.2-1 releases, VSI did *not* build the SYS$LDR:SYS$GHDRIVER.EXE image, so even with an ATI Radeon 7500 or 7000, there's no support for those cards.... currently, anyway. They did function on Itanium and Alpha to provide a graphical terminal that you could run DECwindows on as a local interface using phsyically connected keyboard and mouse.

SYS$LDR:SYS$GBDRIVER.EXE is also not present, so ELSA GLoria and PowerStorm cards aren't able to be supported/function either. Those are the only in-box drivers I recall that'd give you a working graphics system with the hope of OpenGL acceleration. Mind you - OpenGL from the late 90s/early 2000s. OpenGL 1.1 as of VMS 7.3, 8.3 had OpenGL 1.2

I note also that almost none of the OpenGL tools are built/provided in the E9.2-1 and V9.2 installs. So building existing OpenGL using software and utilizing it over remote X11 display would seem to be impossible currently, as well. All may not be lost, as I do recall HP at least doing some bugfixes and updates to OpenGL libraries and graphics support (no new cards) around the 2012-2013 timeframe. The GL directories under SYS$COMMON:DECW$INCLUDE are not present.

If GHDRIVER or GBDRIVER were supported/provided, I suspect a PCIe to PCI bridge with the appropriate card would result in a functional system for DECwindows/X11 currently.

I wonder if potentially open sourcing those, maybe even in just part - to provide some GPU support examples that worked on Alpha and Itanium for community expansion.... documentation on this area is very sparse to non-existant.... or just building them for side distribution, could be potentially possible.

The best hope, I fear, is that it's some VSI engineer's pet project, or some code gets released that people can tinker with.....

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