HP MSA P2000 replacement?

[jeremybegg]

Hi,

I have a client who runs a two-node Integrity rx2800 i2 VMscluster using HP P2000 fibrechannel shared storage. The P2000 is connected only to the VMS servers.

The system is now 12 years old and they are aware that if the P2000 fails they will face an extended and intolerable downtime, so they are interested in exploring replacement. (In the short term I can configure the system to shadow the P2000 storage to local disks internal to each Integrity server, and we might do that anyway, but it's not my preferred solution.)

Can anyone tell me, what current models in HP's fibrechannel storage portfolio might be a suitable replacement? Or a third-party option?

Thanks,
Jeremy Begg

[m_detommaso]

Try to take a look at https://vmssoftware.com/products/supported-platforms/ even if most of the storage models listed there have also been declared EOLS by various vedors.

The natural evolution of a P2000 would be MSA2040/2050 (IN EOLS for a few years, you can only purchase them from the HPE re-marketing channel.), while the MSA2060/MSA2062 array (most modern storage and still on HPE's price list) have the relevant command parameters to support VMS, but VSI never completed the certification. And from the information I have, VSI is not currently certifying any new storage

HPE-Alletra may be the only VSI supported solution at the moment, but its cost is very high when compared to the MSA family.

I have the same problem as you with many Integrity VMS accounts failing to migrate to x86.

/Maurizio

[jeremybegg]

Hi Maurizio,

Thanks for the link, I will take a look. But if most of those are EOL this customer is not going to be any better off.

Not only have they not migrated off Integrity, they are still running HP OpenVMS 8.4 which I installed back in 2012. They stopped subscribing to VMS support a few years later. It’s one of those examples of “we have a plan to get off OpenVMS” and several years later they still have some applications which for whatever reason are unable to be moved.

I proposed moving to X86 a few years ago (as soon as the FORTRAN compiler was released) but the licence costs were seen as being too high, especially for add-ons such as LSE. Since then they’ve had some disk failures in the P2000 and this has got them thinking about migration again.

Jeremy Begg

[arne_v]

Not an uncommon scenario.

Given that the Itanium boxes are also getting older then a migration to x86-64 seems pretty obvious to me.

I would drop LSE. LSE is a great 1980's IDE. But going forward then EVE is fine for general editing and free; and VMS IDE is the natural replacement for LSE (maybe not quite mature yet, but it will get there) and also free.

[arne_v]

Someone else may know what storage options work with VMS 9.x on ESXi or KVM on x86-64. I assume there are many options but I don't know enough about exactly what is required by VMS and what is required by the hypervisor to support such storage systems.

(last time I worked with advanced VMS storage was when it was dual hosted DSSI disks and that is a few years ago ...)

[cct]

(Snip)

I would drop LSE. LSE is a great 1980's IDE. But going forward then EVE is fine for general editing and free; and VMS IDE is the natural replacement for LSE (maybe not quite mature yet, but it will get there) and also free.

I wouldn't! LSE is a wonderful tool. I cannot stand VScode et alia - it does not do what I want

[arne_v]

Different people - different preferences.

I am sure that a lot of old VMS'ers do not like VS Code. I don't!

But applications need to be maintained. And the old VMS'ers retire / get promoted to management / move on to something different / whatever. So if the applications are to have a future then new maintainers need to be hired.

I predict that if you show LSE and VMS IDE to 100 25-30 yo right out of college or just a few years experience aspiring new hires, then 99 or 100 would prefer VMS IDE over LSE. They know that kind of tool. Half of them probably know VS Code well already.

Added in 5 minutes 12 seconds:
I don't like VS Code . But I don't like LSE either.

I am an EVE, JEdit and Eclipse person.

But VS Code / VMS IDE is what VSI is pushing.

And I think it is the right choice. VS Code is the most widely used editor/IDE out there today. Millions of young developers worldwide are learning VS Code.

So despite my personal dislike, then VS Code / VMS IDE is the obvious recommendation.

[m_detommaso]

Hi Jeremy,

I have often faced this type of situation, and I understand well the context you are operating in. Furthermore, in many cases, on the accounts I follow in Europe, VMS virtualization on x86 (using an Hypervisor) is not always accepted as a viable solution, which significantly complicates migration projects.

A storage technology refresh could improve the stability of your customer's architectural design. I recommend you consider purchasing a MSA2040. This class of storage if fully supported by HPE OS release V8.4 (firmware GL220P010 and GL225P002-02) and can be equipped also with 400GB, 800GB, 1.6TB and 3.2TB SSD drives.

If you purchase it from official re-marked channels, the device is delivered to you with a one-year standard warranty and at the same time you can request the extension of support services to 3 or 5 years (care pack).

I hope this helps.

/Maurizio

[jeremybegg]

Hi Maurizio,

I had a phone call with this customer on Friday and learned that they're more worried about the fibrechannel switches than the P2000 itself. It seems that their local HP office is not able to offer any support services other than "best effort", and my customer suspects that this means the systems are effectively unsupported.

An upgrade to the storage was discussed with HP who concluded that finding a suitable combination of storage, switches and adapter cards would be the difficult part, particularly with firmware that would be supported by OpenVMS 8.4. I'll pass your suggestion along in any case.

I also recommended to them that they seriously investigate the OpenVMS X86 option as it would provide them with much better hardware options, including running in the cloud.

Thanks,
Jeremy Begg

[m_detommaso]

Hi Jeremy,

If your customer can migrate to x86 VMS, this is absolutely the best solution for him.

However, if there are technical and/or architectural limitations and your customer is currently forced to remain on the Integrity architecture, there are certainly valid and functional technical solutions.

Please note that the HPE Spock site has not been updated with VMS compatibility matrices for some time now; for example, on the HPE Spock site you cannot find any compatibility matrices of the VMS with Primera and Alletra storage subsystem, while the VSI site states that they have been certified with their releases, but you can't find any trace of which San Switch model and firmware release to use. I manage successfully sites that run VSI VMS I64 connected to Brocade 16Gb San Switches and Primera A650 storage.

Furthermore, the FC protocol is stable and its code has not been modified for many years now:

I am successfully managing some critical sites where currently there are VMS Cluster (3 members) + HPE V8.4UPD15 + Integrity rx2800i2 + AH401A HBA + SanSwitch 16Gb + MSA2040. During the data migration phase,I had to connect the MSA2040 storage to the old SAN which was composed of an MSA1000, three rx2660 + A9784A HBA and two SanSwitch 4/8; everything with very old firmware and everything worked without any problems (this configuration was up for three months).

I hope you can find the best solution for your customer (I'm rooting for the migration to x86 )

/Maurizio